A sad and sorrowful day for us, a long-awaited and well-earned rest for
Tekumel's creator.  Be at peace, Professor: your long travails are now put
aside.  Let others pick up and carry on your toils joyfully and respectfully. 
We will miss your physical presence, but your spirit sings on in our
imaginations.

--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, Victor Raymond <badger2305@...> wrote:
>
> Minneapolis, Minnesota, March 16, 2012
>
> Professor Muhammad Abd-al-Rahman (MAR) Barker, known to his friends as
> "Phil," died peacefully in home hospice on March 16, 2012 with his wife
> Ambereen Barker at his side. Professor Barker is survived by his wife of 53
> years, Ambereen. Details on memorial services will follow.  In lieu of
> flowers, memorials to the Tékumel Foundation are preferred, visit
> http://www.tekumelfoundation.org.
>
> For more detail, please go to:
> http://www.tekumelfoundation.org/PressRelease-MARBARKER-1929-2012.pdf
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Tekumel Group --

My condolences with Professor Barker's family, and with you all.

Ken Fletcher

--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, Victor Raymond <badger2305@...> wrote:
>
> Minneapolis, Minnesota, March 16, 2012
>
> Professor Muhammad Abd-al-Rahman (MAR) Barker, known to his friends as
> "Phil," died peacefully in home hospice on March 16, 2012 with his wife
> Ambereen Barker at his side. Professor Barker is survived by his wife of 53
> years, Ambereen. Details on memorial services will follow.  In lieu of
> flowers, memorials to the Tékumel Foundation are preferred, visit
> http://www.tekumelfoundation.org.
>
> For more detail, please go to:
> http://www.tekumelfoundation.org/PressRelease-MARBARKER-1929-2012.pdf
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

My condolences to Professor Barker's family and his many friends.
Tekumel remains with us.

  virche_hi_dune aka Felipe Morales

Mycondolances to Ambereen and the thursday night crew. they were always gracious
when i showed up on short notice.

Since my first letter from him, about 30 years ago, when i was appointed
Governor of Fenul Tekumel has been a part of my life.

Andy Lorince  aka Yuninash hi'Ancholbel Governor of Fenul

So sorry for this loss. His long, full life touched many, and in a positive way.
I often wonder if I would not have entered Asian studies were it not for
exposure to Tekumel at a formative age. 
Yet, I am also curious to see how the next chapter unfolds in the Tekumel saga. 
In the early 90s or so I think I'd come to the quiet conclusion that I would
probably never again have another knowledgable discussion with anyone about this
"Tekumel" thing again. Despite my collection of strange figures and gaming books
on the subject, I thought it was just too obscure. 
Then along came new, unforseen (at least by me) technology, the internet, and
everything changed and it now seems to be more alive than it has been since the
1970s. It should be interesting to see what happens next. 
Peter Huston      


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I first read Prof. Barker's writings on Tekumel 35-odd years ago, and he has
been an inspiration ever since, as I have eagerly waited for each new ruleset or
book or idea.  I'm sure I have far too many books on Angkor and South-East Asia
as a result.

My condolences to Ambereen, his family, and all his friends on whatever plane
they may be.  He was a good man.

I was in Australia when I heard the news.  Once I get home, I'll have to paint
the (25mm) Legion of the Ever Glorious that I have.

Zygmunt Lozinski

I recently became aware that Yahoo groups have a live chat feature now. Checking
the one for this group, I no activity at all, despite 684 registered members and
the number of emails I get forwarded of posts to this group.

Are people simply unaware of this feature? It seems to me that it'd be a very
good way for Tekumel fans to keep in touch. There's something that just seems
different about chatting in real-time compared to the posts.

Plus, with it being part of the group, I'm sure copy-pasting anything truly
relevent to the groups messages would be pretty easy.

I was looking round to see if there was anything like a Tekumel IRC channel
still active when I found this, which would pretty much do the same thing. I'll
therefore log in semi-regularly when I'm online and see if anyone else drops by.
Even assuming that 90% of the registered members are inactive, there's bound to
be SOME interest, after all.

The chatroom is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumel/chat if anyone isn't
sure of the location.

Judging from what I saw most people, like me, simply didn't know that we had a
chat feature.


--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, "tantavalist" <darrenkng@...> wrote:
>
> I recently became aware that Yahoo groups have a live chat feature now.
Checking the one for this group, I no activity at all, despite 684 registered
members and the number of emails I get forwarded of posts to this group.
>
> Are people simply unaware of this feature? It seems to me that it'd be a very
good way for Tekumel fans to keep in touch. There's something that just seems
different about chatting in real-time compared to the posts.
>
> Plus, with it being part of the group, I'm sure copy-pasting anything truly
relevent to the groups messages would be pretty easy.
>
> I was looking round to see if there was anything like a Tekumel IRC channel
still active when I found this, which would pretty much do the same thing. I'll
therefore log in semi-regularly when I'm online and see if anyone else drops by.
Even assuming that 90% of the registered members are inactive, there's bound to
be SOME interest, after all.
>
> The chatroom is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumel/chat if anyone isn't
sure of the location.
>

I'm sitting there now.
---
Brett Slocum <brett.slocum@...>




On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Brian <tmechanic@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Judging from what I saw most people, like me, simply didn't know that we
> had a chat feature.
>
>
> --- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, "tantavalist" <darrenkng@...> wrote:
> >
> > I recently became aware that Yahoo groups have a live chat feature now.
> Checking the one for this group, I no activity at all, despite 684
> registered members and the number of emails I get forwarded of posts to
> this group.
> >
> > Are people simply unaware of this feature? It seems to me that it'd be a
> very good way for Tekumel fans to keep in touch. There's something that
> just seems different about chatting in real-time compared to the posts.
> >
> > Plus, with it being part of the group, I'm sure copy-pasting anything
> truly relevent to the groups messages would be pretty easy.
> >
> > I was looking round to see if there was anything like a Tekumel IRC
> channel still active when I found this, which would pretty much do the same
> thing. I'll therefore log in semi-regularly when I'm online and see if
> anyone else drops by. Even assuming that 90% of the registered members are
> inactive, there's bound to be SOME interest, after all.
> >
> > The chatroom is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tekumel/chat if anyone
> isn't sure of the location.
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It saw some use waaaaaaaaaaay back when.
People popped in and out for a few days or a week...then it went back to sleep.
 
It got a little creepy when there was a small Silver Suit incursion.

--- On Thu, 3/22/12, Brian <tmechanic@...> wrote:





 



Judging from what I saw most people, like me, simply didn't know that we had a
chat feature.

--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, "tantavalist" <darrenkng@...> wrote:

> Are people simply unaware of this feature?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My office firewalls let me see the room...but block all content. Wheeee.
 


--- On Thu, 3/22/12, Brett Slocum <brett.slocum@...> wrote:




 



I'm sitting there now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll stay in the room while I'm online for at least a few days, see what
happens. If nothing else there was an entertaining chat last night when some
people popped in right after I sent the initial message.

I'm a UK resident who's also something of a night owl, if people wonder about
the strange times I log in.

It seems that you can also (assuming you're on your own PC and not working
through office firewalls) access the history of the chatroom and see what people
have talked about recently, which can be useful for people who can't make the
same times as others are logging in.

In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me which
others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it here.

Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of Tsolyanu" solo
adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I found myself
wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear. For most of the
Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just didn't fit.

Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish, since I know that if I
manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my players will want their
characters to follow her.

The usual ascetic spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings of
Dlamelish. But simply having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the Temples
cater to that after all. So what should a Monastary do in her service?

The solution was to read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully, and
remember that the Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
understandable mistake, since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think "whores"
when they bring her to mind.

The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's colony. Dlamelish is
about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an expression of this that
often finds expression simpler when removed from distractions. The Monastary
resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of sufficient renown are given
private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged to create beauty. And
presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any secrets they see fit to
impart.

Likely it would be less remote than some monastaries, and have a fief to support
it. Followers of Dlamelish don't feel that manual labour and doing without
creature comforts is spiritually uplifting, after all.

Other ideas I had which different monastaries might be based upon were:-

A place where Tantric Yoga is taught, training followers in contortion skills
that allow the stranger poses displayed in the Karma Sutra to become physically
possible.

A detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The goal being
not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to re-enter his old life
after a few years and experience the delights as pleasurable again, rather than
going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.

Ideas given by Geestar in discussion:-

A music-and-dance school, where youths and maidens are trained from a young age
to give an exquisite performance before being sent to join the Temple-sponsored
Troupes. Such training also includes the basics of espionage, because a
travelling troupe of performers is the perfect way to gather information.

A coven of Sorcerers who live in isolation so that they can practice the
summoning of Dlamelish's many demon servitors without raising concerns from
non-Cultists about summoning such beings in a Temple within a large city.


Anyone else have thoughts?

When I go to the 'chat' room, all I get is:
 
Chat is currently unavailable. Try again later.

-- Don




________________________________
From: tantavalist <darrenkng@...>
To: tekumel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:41 AM
Subject: [tekumel] Re: Yahoo Group Chat?


 
I'll stay in the room while I'm online for at least a few days, see what
happens. If nothing else there was an entertaining chat last night when some
people popped in right after I sent the initial message.

I'm a UK resident who's also something of a night owl, if people wonder about
the strange times I log in.

It seems that you can also (assuming you're on your own PC and not working
through office firewalls) access the history of the chatroom and see what people
have talked about recently, which can be useful for people who can't make the
same times as others are logging in.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Everything that you said is correct or nearly so, but I would like to
add to it.  (I also ran through that scenario, wondering how my character,
an academic priest of Dlamelish, would get caught dead in a place like
that.)  Dlamelish is also associated with certain Demon Planes, and is a
keeper of secrets.  Dlamelish might have monasteries in order to pursue
some of the more difficult and detailed academic work away from the myriad
distractions of a major temple.  This isn't to say that they won't be
having "fun times," but a lot of the narcotics will be stimulants and
sedatives rather than aphrodesiacs and hallucinogens, a lot of the "pillow
talk" will be about formulae, historical trivia, and such, etc.
      Basically, imagine a bunch of mixed-sex geeks told to "go work alone
with each other" for a year, and also imagine that there's no chatrooms for
cybersex, so the only way is to get the real thing.

--
Edmund Wilfong

"In a little while you will be alone in shoreless space, to wander its
limitless solitudes without friend or comrade forever - for you will remain
a thought, the only existent thought, and by your nature inextinguishable,
indestructible.  [...T]here is no God, no universe, no human race, no
earthly life, no heaven, no hell.  It is all a dream - a grotesque and
foolish dream.  Nothing exists but you.  And you are but a thought - a
vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn
among the empty eternities!"
-The Mysterious Stranger, Mark Twain

"Welcome to reality.  The paradise of repressed dreams."
-The Psychiatric Clinic for Abused Cuddly Toys


On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:08 AM, tantavalist <darrenkng@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
> which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it here.
>
> Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of Tsolyanu"
> solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I found
> myself wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear. For
> most of the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just
> didn't fit.
>
> Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish, since I know that
> if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my players will
> want their characters to follow her.
>
> The usual ascetic spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings of
> Dlamelish. But simply having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the
> Temples cater to that after all. So what should a Monastary do in her
> service?
>
> The solution was to read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully, and
> remember that the Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
> understandable mistake, since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think
> "whores" when they bring her to mind.
>
> The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's colony.
> Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an expression
> of this that often finds expression simpler when removed from distractions.
> The Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of sufficient
> renown are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged to create
> beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any secrets
> they see fit to impart.
>
> Likely it would be less remote than some monastaries, and have a fief to
> support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't feel that manual labour and doing
> without creature comforts is spiritually uplifting, after all.
>
> Other ideas I had which different monastaries might be based upon were:-
>
> A place where Tantric Yoga is taught, training followers in contortion
> skills that allow the stranger poses displayed in the Karma Sutra to become
> physically possible.
>
> A detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The goal
> being not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to re-enter
> his old life after a few years and experience the delights as pleasurable
> again, rather than going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.
>
> Ideas given by Geestar in discussion:-
>
> A music-and-dance school, where youths and maidens are trained from a
> young age to give an exquisite performance before being sent to join the
> Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also includes the basics of
> espionage, because a travelling troupe of performers is the perfect way to
> gather information.
>
> A coven of Sorcerers who live in isolation so that they can practice the
> summoning of Dlamelish's many demon servitors without raising concerns from
> non-Cultists about summoning such beings in a Temple within a large city.
>
> Anyone else have thoughts?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been a lurker here for some time, but think I may finally have something
to say with some knowledge and experience behind it ;).  I hope I don't just
show off my lack in the knowledge department.  I am still learning.

My second character (I play in two different campaigns) is a Priestess of
Dlamelish.  It has been interesting learning to cope being around the table with
six men, hee hee.  There is always much innuendo and smart talk going on that I
have had to get used to.

I could easily see where monasteries would be of use to the followers of
Dlamelish.

Dlamelish is a seeker after experiences.  Even doing labor can be considered an
experience....though it seems most do equate the Lady with sex in all it's glory
and don't think of much else.  I have to disagree that ascetic spiritual
contemplation would be anathema to the Lady.  Perhaps it would be to most of the
people teaching her ways.  I think she would see it as an experience also and
that it would be possible to get pleasure from it.

My character has found that there can be excitement even in academic pursuits. 
She has usable knowledge of devices of the ancients and that gives her a
different thrill that all the sex she could get wouldn't.  She has also traveled
the planes.  That is another experience that the mainstream wouldn't necessarily
think of as exciting.....she finds it greatly so.

Even the battles she has participated in have been experiences she will never
forget.  While she is no great warrior she has other skills she can bring to the
fray.  She also doesn't necessarily look forward to them, they are experiences
that add to her life in ways she probably doesn't even realize.

I think if followers of Dlamelish looked outside the "norm" they would find many
things that could give the pleasure of experience.  The taste of a perfectly
cooked and seasoned piece of meat for example.  Or the scent of a pie baking or
of that favorite perfume.  Even the feel of the brisk air outside the temple in
the middle of the night after a session of five or six hours....;).

Or the relaxation after that five or six hour session.....it's all good and it's
all something I think would be approved of by the Lady.

In my opinion she doesn't want her followers to get in a rut.  Going to the same
old rituals, and the same old parties night after night would not find favor
with her. I think she wants her followers to revel in life in all it's glory!

Just my 2 qirgal worth in the discussion.

Charlotte



--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, Sauvagine <pneumonica@...> wrote:
>
>      Everything that you said is correct or nearly so, but I would like to
> add to it.  (I also ran through that scenario, wondering how my character,
> an academic priest of Dlamelish, would get caught dead in a place like
> that.)  Dlamelish is also associated with certain Demon Planes, and is a
> keeper of secrets.  Dlamelish might have monasteries in order to pursue
> some of the more difficult and detailed academic work away from the myriad
> distractions of a major temple.  This isn't to say that they won't be
> having "fun times," but a lot of the narcotics will be stimulants and
> sedatives rather than aphrodesiacs and hallucinogens, a lot of the "pillow
> talk" will be about formulae, historical trivia, and such, etc.
>      Basically, imagine a bunch of mixed-sex geeks told to "go work alone
> with each other" for a year, and also imagine that there's no chatrooms for
> cybersex, so the only way is to get the real thing.
>
> --
> Edmund Wilfong
>
> "In a little while you will be alone in shoreless space, to wander its
> limitless solitudes without friend or comrade forever - for you will remain
> a thought, the only existent thought, and by your nature inextinguishable,
> indestructible.  [...T]here is no God, no universe, no human race, no
> earthly life, no heaven, no hell.  It is all a dream - a grotesque and
> foolish dream.  Nothing exists but you.  And you are but a thought - a
> vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn
> among the empty eternities!"
> -The Mysterious Stranger, Mark Twain
>
> "Welcome to reality.  The paradise of repressed dreams."
> -The Psychiatric Clinic for Abused Cuddly Toys
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:08 AM, tantavalist <darrenkng@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
> > which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it here.
> >
> > Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of Tsolyanu"
> > solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I found
> > myself wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear. For
> > most of the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just
> > didn't fit.
> >
> > Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish, since I know that
> > if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my players will
> > want their characters to follow her.
> >
> > The usual ascetic spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings of
> > Dlamelish. But simply having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the
> > Temples cater to that after all. So what should a Monastary do in her
> > service?
> >
> > The solution was to read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully, and
> > remember that the Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
> > understandable mistake, since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think
> > "whores" when they bring her to mind.
> >
> > The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's colony.
> > Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an expression
> > of this that often finds expression simpler when removed from distractions.
> > The Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of sufficient
> > renown are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged to create
> > beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any secrets
> > they see fit to impart.
> >
> > Likely it would be less remote than some monastaries, and have a fief to
> > support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't feel that manual labour and doing
> > without creature comforts is spiritually uplifting, after all.
> >
> > Other ideas I had which different monastaries might be based upon were:-
> >
> > A place where Tantric Yoga is taught, training followers in contortion
> > skills that allow the stranger poses displayed in the Karma Sutra to become
> > physically possible.
> >
> > A detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The goal
> > being not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to re-enter
> > his old life after a few years and experience the delights as pleasurable
> > again, rather than going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.
> >
> > Ideas given by Geestar in discussion:-
> >
> > A music-and-dance school, where youths and maidens are trained from a
> > young age to give an exquisite performance before being sent to join the
> > Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also includes the basics of
> > espionage, because a travelling troupe of performers is the perfect way to
> > gather information.
> >
> > A coven of Sorcerers who live in isolation so that they can practice the
> > summoning of Dlamelish's many demon servitors without raising concerns from
> > non-Cultists about summoning such beings in a Temple within a large city.
> >
> > Anyone else have thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

The theme-park approach to defining the operations and philosophy of a
monastery is not sufficient to meet all perspectives.  Dlamelish and to my
information most other dieties demand or receive inimical beings  (demons) in
their temples under strictly controlled circumstances.   They generally are
also known to have very unpleasant ceremonies, as in the case  of Dlamelish,
not all of the participants survive.  There is a  'transportation' ceremony
as I recall in one of the novels in which some of the  participants may be
consumed literally. I also remember the Professor relating a  ceremony in
which some lashing tongues were horrifically fatal.  The  isolation and
contemplative aspects of any diety are not unexpected even when  the need to
recover personal or metaphysical control would be expected of 'mere'  human
followers.  In comparison, on one level, Christian monasteries are  about
caring,
contemplative or humanitarian works.  On another,  Christianity brought the
Inquisition and earlier the slaughter of a  significant number of females
suspected of witchcraft or druidism or  worshipping a female supreme being.

Monasteries exist as administrative solutions to many different  demands.
Some are pretty as the Garden of Eden concept  of harmony in a controlled
environment.   Some are jails or  insane asylums.  Or something inbetween.

Mostly, I think, monasteries are about the illusion of control.


In a message dated 3/22/2012 8:08:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
darrenkng@... writes:




In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it  here.

Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of  Tsolyanu"
solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I  found myself
wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear.  For most of
the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just  didn't fit.

Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish,  since I know that
if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my  players will
want their characters to follow her.

The usual ascetic  spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings of
Dlamelish. But simply  having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the
Temples cater to that after  all. So what should a Monastary do in her service?

The solution was to  read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully, and
remember that the  Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
understandable mistake,  since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think "whores"
when they bring her to  mind.

The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's  colony.
Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an  expression of
this that often finds expression simpler when removed from  distractions. The
Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of  sufficient renown
are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged  to create
beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any  secrets they
see
fit to impart.

Likely it would be less remote than  some monastaries, and have a fief to
support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't  feel that manual labour and doing
without creature comforts is spiritually  uplifting, after all.

Other ideas I had which different monastaries  might be based upon were:-

A place where Tantric Yoga is taught,  training followers in contortion
skills that allow the stranger poses  displayed in the Karma Sutra to become
physically possible.

A  detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The goal
being  not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to re-enter
his old  life after a few years and experience the delights as pleasurable
again,  rather than going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.

Ideas  given by Geestar in discussion:-

A music-and-dance school, where youths  and maidens are trained from a
young age to give an exquisite performance  before being sent to join the
Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also  includes the basics of espionage,
because a travelling troupe of performers is  the perfect way to gather
information.

A coven of Sorcerers who live in  isolation so that they can practice the
summoning of Dlamelish's many demon  servitors without raising concerns from
non-Cultists about summoning such  beings in a Temple within a large city.

Anyone else have  thoughts?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 3/22/2012 1:39 PM, chuckgame2@... wrote:
>
>
> Mostly, I think, monasteries are about the illusion of control.
>
Difficult to say. While I am not precisely certain of your meaning there
is some meta-truth there. While I am certainly not capable of making
observations about the monastic traditions of all Earthly religions, I
feel comfortable saying of the monastic life of Catholic (specifically
Irish medieval), Theravada & Mahayana Buddhism, Zen, the cults of Saturn
and Eleusis, and the Manichees the one common purpose was to perfect
personal spirit and an investigation into the deeper mysteries of the
religion within a community, and often (though I'm not prepared to make
the universal statement, esp. with Saturn) in charge of maintaining and
disseminating catechism, inner doctrine, and sometimes proper tutelage.
The important and universal factor is the emphasis on community -
hermits are historically rare, as if the energy generated by the
community is necessary for the tasks of the monastery. So in the sense
that monasteries are the keepers of wisdom it is about the illusion of
control or at least authority.

Tekumel deities seem to me to be engaged in some endeavor beyond human
understanding, and in a very real sense humanity is being used to some,
unfathomable end. Undoubtedly, such operations as to provide a god with
resources are layered - a "theme-park approach" might be the best means
to attract a certain gifted segment of Dlamelish's followers, especially
if those so pre-disposed could be more easily manipulated, but dig
deeper and you would find much meaner philosophies.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So in the sense that monasteries are the keepers of wisdom it is about  the
illusion of
control or at least authority.

Monasteries tend to be very controlled environments, even if by a  locked
door rather than physical isolation by the hardship of geography  or arduous
rituals.  Monasteries are about administrative control  over a population,
often for specific purposes. Harsan's monastery  of Thumis seemed focused on
the sciences/mysteries of the physical world,  like geomancy and theses
presented as physical art forms. It also had rules and  consequences for
infractions and what some might consider freedom  of choice or 'normal' life
activities. Inside the walls of the monastery,  certain persons had
control/responsibility over persons of a lower status. That  control extended,
by training
and submission, beyond the  monastery. Wisdom is one way to express
understanding of that  control.  (Images of the nun with the ruler may be
appropriate here, or  simply a grade mark atop the homework page).

Monasteries are about traffic control in many ways.  They are able  to
control to some degree who or what enters  the facilities.  They intend to
restrict the information  available to the population within and without their
walls, either in the  physical sense or in the metaphysical sense.
Classically, the snake came  over the wall of the Garden, as Agatha Christie
often
tells us.  There is  always a challenge about how much resistance can be
presented, however, as  Henry VIII demonstrated to the Catholic monasteries and
properties in England.  Or as we might well understand from the wars between
temples and  the necessity of the Concordat in Tsolyanu. Hardly any of  the
followers of any diety on Tekumel seem immune to the great conflict of
Stability and Change, yet they survive mostly on not trusting the promises of
demons and dieties too much, or marginalize the most fanatic elements or
individuals.  The fact that this contention exists in a 'college' at  the End of
Time seems evident of its unresolved existence well beyond the  ken of
mortals. It is easy to think of this college as a monastery.

Thus I use the term 'illusion of control'.  If I did not, then I  would be
caught up in the arguments of pre-destination and that Wisdom  would tell me
that resistance is futile.


In a message dated 3/22/2012 12:24:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
koda.teak@... writes:




On 3/22/2012 1:39 PM, _chuckgame2@..._ (mailto:chuckgame2@...)
wrote:
>
>
> Mostly, I think, monasteries are about the  illusion of control.
>
Difficult to say. While I am not precisely  certain of your meaning there
is some meta-truth there. While I am  certainly not capable of making
observations about the monastic traditions  of all Earthly religions, I
feel comfortable saying of the monastic life  of Catholic (specifically
Irish medieval), Theravada & Mahayana  Buddhism, Zen, the cults of Saturn
and Eleusis, and the Manichees the one  common purpose was to perfect
personal spirit and an investigation into  the deeper mysteries of the
religion within a community, and often (though  I'm not prepared to make
the universal statement, esp. with Saturn) in  charge of maintaining and
disseminating catechism, inner doctrine, and  sometimes proper tutelage.
The important and universal factor is the  emphasis on community -
hermits are historically rare, as if the energy  generated by the
community is necessary for the tasks of the monastery. So  in the sense
that monasteries are the keepers of wisdom it is about the  illusion of
control or at least authority.

Tekumel deities seem to  me to be engaged in some endeavor beyond human
understanding, and in a  very real sense humanity is being used to some,
unfathomable end.  Undoubtedly, such operations as to provide a god with
resources are  layered - a "theme-park approach" might be the best means
to attract a  certain gifted segment of Dlamelish's followers, especially
if those so  pre-disposed could be more easily manipulated, but dig
deeper and you  would find much meaner philosophies.

[Non-text portions of this message  have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I look at monasteries very practically.  Every shrine is built for the adoration
and veneration of the deity in question but a monastery is usually a group of
followers of the inner doctrine that desire to worship their god or aspect in a
more pure manner that may not fit with the public's understanding of the outer
doctrine.  The brothel like trappings of your common Dlamelish temple would
probably not be very evident at the monastery.

I like many of the ideas disclosed within this thread, art communities, dance
schools, cooking seminaries, courtesan training conservatories, places
preserving the ancient secrets, etc.

In my campaign I have over the years included the following Dlamelish
monasteries:

The Monastery of the Viridian Censer, wherein the sisterhood produces and
researches sensory enhancing drugs, as well as hallucinogenics, stimulants, etc.
The clergy's speciality is an elixir that allows out of body travel and
communication.  This group's secret is that they act much like the Ksarul
temple's telepathic network in communicating secret messages among the temple's
leaders.

The Monastery of the Penchant Essence is an aesthetic academy teaching followers
the very mechanics of pleasure and sensation.  Through studying the arts of
concentration, focusing, sensory deprivation and over stimulation a priest or
priestess can learn mastery over the subtle art of control of others through
body language, voice modulation, sympathy and empathy. (akin to the Bene
Gesserit sisterhood)  The school's graduates go one to achieve high office and
or become the power behind other great men and women.

Hidden on a craggy island south of Jakalla there is the Monastery of the
Agglomerate Reminiscences.  The clergy there preserve and ancient Bednaljan
spell that creates a gem.  When a person wears the gem on their forehead, all of
their experiences,( sight, hearing, touching smelling, feelings) are stored in
the gem and can be accessed later by priests and priestesses through the use of
a device of the ancients.  Their library is enormous, one can experience the
grandeur of the secret shires without the danger of travelling the underworld,
live the dreams of a Zu'ur addict without the drug, feel the exhilaration of
combat without learning warrior skills.  The temple uses this monastery in
several ways.  They can punish heretics by having them experience torture
without physical harm.  They can reward clergy by having them experience a night
of ecstasy with an ancient famous paramour of the temple.  Mostly the library is
used to teach their clergy not from books but by actual experience without risk
of harm e.g. how many times would you practice the summoning of Origob before
actually trying it?

I could warn players not to limit your ideas of monasteries to the Western
Judeo-Christen archetype, but since you are already playing Tekumel the warning
may be mute.


--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, chuckgame2@... wrote:
>
> The theme-park approach to defining the operations and philosophy of a
> monastery is not sufficient to meet all perspectives.  Dlamelish and to my
> information most other dieties demand or receive inimical beings  (demons) in
> their temples under strictly controlled circumstances.   They generally are
> also known to have very unpleasant ceremonies, as in the case  of Dlamelish,
> not all of the participants survive.  There is a  'transportation' ceremony
> as I recall in one of the novels in which some of the  participants may be
> consumed literally. I also remember the Professor relating a  ceremony in
> which some lashing tongues were horrifically fatal.  The  isolation and
> contemplative aspects of any diety are not unexpected even when  the need to
> recover personal or metaphysical control would be expected of 'mere'  human
> followers.  In comparison, on one level, Christian monasteries are  about
caring,
> contemplative or humanitarian works.  On another,  Christianity brought the
> Inquisition and earlier the slaughter of a  significant number of females
> suspected of witchcraft or druidism or  worshipping a female supreme being.
>
> Monasteries exist as administrative solutions to many different  demands.
> Some are pretty as the Garden of Eden concept  of harmony in a controlled
> environment.   Some are jails or  insane asylums.  Or something inbetween.
>
> Mostly, I think, monasteries are about the illusion of control.
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/2012 8:08:39 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> darrenkng@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
> which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it  here.
>
> Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of  Tsolyanu"
> solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I  found
myself
> wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear.  For most of
> the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just  didn't fit.
>
> Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish,  since I know that
> if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my  players will
> want their characters to follow her.
>
> The usual ascetic  spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings of
> Dlamelish. But simply  having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the
> Temples cater to that after  all. So what should a Monastary do in her
service?
>
> The solution was to  read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully, and
> remember that the  Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
> understandable mistake,  since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think "whores"
> when they bring her to  mind.
>
> The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's  colony.
> Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an  expression
of
> this that often finds expression simpler when removed from  distractions. The
> Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of  sufficient renown
> are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged  to create
> beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any  secrets they
see
> fit to impart.
>
> Likely it would be less remote than  some monastaries, and have a fief to
> support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't  feel that manual labour and doing
> without creature comforts is spiritually  uplifting, after all.
>
> Other ideas I had which different monastaries  might be based upon were:-
>
> A place where Tantric Yoga is taught,  training followers in contortion
> skills that allow the stranger poses  displayed in the Karma Sutra to become
> physically possible.
>
> A  detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The goal
> being  not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to re-enter
> his old  life after a few years and experience the delights as pleasurable
> again,  rather than going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.
>
> Ideas  given by Geestar in discussion:-
>
> A music-and-dance school, where youths  and maidens are trained from a
> young age to give an exquisite performance  before being sent to join the
> Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also  includes the basics of
espionage,
> because a travelling troupe of performers is  the perfect way to gather
> information.
>
> A coven of Sorcerers who live in  isolation so that they can practice the
> summoning of Dlamelish's many demon  servitors without raising concerns from
> non-Cultists about summoning such  beings in a Temple within a large city.
>
> Anyone else have  thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, "Howard" <green27@...> wrote:
>
> Do these documents still exist anywhere?
>
> 2. Barker, M.A.R. (1950). A Useful Grammar of Ts Solyŕni (by Messěliu
Badŕrian). Seattle. pp. 1–13.
> 3. Barker, M.A.R. (1950). A Complete and Efficacious Pamphlet on the Structure
and use of the Cursive Script of the Ts Solyani (by Chanyavassa Vimululyanga).
Seattle. pp. 1–11.
>
> Howard
>

Other, wiser heads may have more information, but the only place that I've seen
these referenced is in the wikipedia article for Tsolyani.  The wikipedia
contributor that added these references is "Harami2000", and apparently, he's a
member of the Scottish wikipedia community - I have no idea if he's on this
list, or not, or who he might be in non-wiki contexts.

You can see the add here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tsoly%C3%A1ni_language&diff=prev&oldid\
=319562999


I'm really curious if these were invented by the poster, or picked up from some
other source that mentioned them, or if they really exist, or what.  I haven't
been able to dig up any real cites (as in them being in some library collection)
at all.

Malcolm

I think your headed in the right directions for certain.  Monastery is a
bit off troublesome word here, rife as it is with Terran connotations.  I
tend to think of them more as just being remote places that worshippers of
a particular god gather to do specific things.  There are several reasons
why they might, include but not limited to:

Needing isolation from the larger world (removal of distractions)

Needing to be at a specific place due to the work they're involved in.  I
believe there are several places like Thenu Thendraya peak that are
particularly potent places for certain kinds of magic, for example.  The
temple of Vimuhla deep in the Chakan forests is there, apparently, because
it's a place where the skin of reality is particularly thin, and perhaps
even connected to another plane.

Needing to be isolated because what goes on there is secret.

Needing to be isolated because what goes on there is dangerous.

Needing to be where it is because that's just where it needs to be.  I
think that there's a monastery of Vimuhla that is where it is because it's
where the ancient military site with a planet busting bomb is.


As far as Dlamelish, your right that she's about far more than just sex.
  She's about pleasure in all its forms.  So I can easily envision a
monastery devoted to creating the most beautiful, fragrant gardens
imaginable.  Or for music, art, and dance.  Or for individual adepts to
attempt to gain some sort of connection with the goddess through mystical
practice.

Tsolyanu is a big place, and there's plenty of room.  It's interesting to
note that Terran monasteries have many forms, and sometimes only contain a
handful of people, while others are, or have been, quite large.

My two cents,

Malcolm


On Thursday, March 22, 2012, tantavalist <darrenkng@...> wrote:
>
>
> In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it here.
>
> Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of Tsolyanu"
solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I found
myself wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear. For
most of the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just
didn't fit.
>
> Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish, since I know that
if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my players will
want their characters to follow her.
>
> The usual ascetic spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings of
Dlamelish. But simply having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the
Temples cater to that after all. So what should a Monastary do in her
service?
>
> The solution was to read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully,
and remember that the Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
understandable mistake, since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think
"whores" when they bring her to mind.
>
> The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's colony.
Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an expression
of this that often finds expression simpler when removed from distractions.
The Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of sufficient
renown are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged to create
beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any secrets
they see fit to impart.
>
> Likely it would be less remote than some monastaries, and have a fief to
support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't feel that manual labour and doing
without creature comforts is spiritually uplifting, after all.
>
> Other ideas I had which different monastaries might be based upon were:-
>
> A place where Tantric Yoga is taught, training followers in contortion
skills that allow the stranger poses displayed in the Karma Sutra to become
physically possible.
>
> A detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The goal
being not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to re-enter
his old life after a few years and experience the delights as pleasurable
again, rather than going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.
>
> Ideas given by Geestar in discussion:-
>
> A music-and-dance school, where youths and maidens are trained from a
young age to give an exquisite performance before being sent to join the
Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also includes the basics of
espionage, because a travelling troupe of performers is the perfect way to
gather information.
>
> A coven of Sorcerers who live in isolation so that they can practice the
summoning of Dlamelish's many demon servitors without raising concerns from
non-Cultists about summoning such beings in a Temple within a large city.
>
> Anyone else have thoughts?
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I apologize for the terrible grammar and spelling mistakes.  iPads are not
the best typewriters.  ;)

Malcolm

On Thursday, March 22, 2012, Malcolm Heath <malcolmpdx@...> wrote:
> I think your headed in the right directions for certain.  Monastery is a
bit off troublesome word here, rife as it is with Terran connotations.  I
tend to think of them more as just being remote places that worshippers of
a particular god gather to do specific things.  There are several reasons
why they might, include but not limited to:
>
> Needing isolation from the larger world (removal of distractions)
>
> Needing to be at a specific place due to the work they're involved in.  I
believe there are several places like Thenu Thendraya peak that are
particularly potent places for certain kinds of magic, for example.  The
temple of Vimuhla deep in the Chakan forests is there, apparently, because
it's a place where the skin of reality is particularly thin, and perhaps
even connected to another plane.
>
> Needing to be isolated because what goes on there is secret.
>
> Needing to be isolated because what goes on there is dangerous.
>
> Needing to be where it is because that's just where it needs to be.  I
think that there's a monastery of Vimuhla that is where it is because it's
where the ancient military site with a planet busting bomb is.
>
>
> As far as Dlamelish, your right that she's about far more than just sex.
  She's about pleasure in all its forms.  So I can easily envision a
monastery devoted to creating the most beautiful, fragrant gardens
imaginable.  Or for music, art, and dance.  Or for individual adepts to
attempt to gain some sort of connection with the goddess through mystical
practice.
>
> Tsolyanu is a big place, and there's plenty of room.  It's interesting to
note that Terran monasteries have many forms, and sometimes only contain a
handful of people, while others are, or have been, quite large.
>
> My two cents,
>
> Malcolm
>
>
> On Thursday, March 22, 2012, tantavalist <darrenkng@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it here.
>>
>> Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of Tsolyanu"
solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I found
myself wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear. For
most of the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just
didn't fit.
>>
>> Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish, since I know
that if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my players
will want their characters to follow her.
>>
>> The usual ascetic spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings
of Dlamelish. But simply having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the
Temples cater to that after all. So what should a Monastary do in her
service?
>>
>> The solution was to read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully,
and remember that the Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
understandable mistake, since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think
"whores" when they bring her to mind.
>>
>> The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's colony.
Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an expression
of this that often finds expression simpler when removed from distractions.
The Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of sufficient
renown are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged to create
beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any secrets
they see fit to impart.
>>
>> Likely it would be less remote than some monastaries, and have a fief to
support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't feel that manual labour and doing
without creature comforts is spiritually uplifting, after all.
>>
>> Other ideas I had which different monastaries might be based upon were:-
>>
>> A place where Tantric Yoga is taught, training followers in contortion
skills that allow the stranger poses displayed in the Karma Sutra to become
physically possible.
>>
>> A detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The
goal being not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to
re-enter his old life after a few years and experience the delights as
pleasurable again, rather than going through the motions in a state of
jaded ennui.
>>
>> Ideas given by Geestar in discussion:-
>>
>> A music-and-dance school, where youths and maidens are trained from a
young age to give an exquisite performance before being sent to join the
Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also includes the basics of
espionage, because a travelling troupe of performers is the perfect way to
gather information.
>>
>> A coven of Sorcerers who live in isolation so that they can practice the
summoning of Dlamelish's many demon servitors without raising concerns from
non-Cultists about summoning such beings in a Temple within a large city.
>>
>> Anyone else have thoughts?
>>
>>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is a certain organisation I belong to that teaches us that Wisdom seeks a
lonely shade, or the monastic cell, which is designed for contemplation, and
there, enthroned, she sits, delivering her sacred oracles. There people ought to
seek her, to pursue a real bliss.

Not all monasterians are ascetics or gnostics. Even today.

A culinary school, a school for croupiers/dealers and gambling/gaming
organization/management, a school for acrobats and other more physical
entertainers. And maybe having various servants of Ksarul on retainer for making
the 'good drugs', perfumes and incenses and the like.

Additionally, many devotees of Dlalmelish do their own training--Lady Ankaa has
over the years trained many young devotees in the mysteries of sex and pleasure,
as well as concurrently training them to be exemplary body servants--hair,
clothes, makeup and the like, as well as massage and other comfort techniques.

There is a large 'infrastructure' required for attaining all that pleasure, and
so having good cooks, servants, gambling managers, entertainers etc. are
important to having a pleasurable experience.

Lady Ankaa

--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, "Grinch" <MegaGrinch@...> wrote:
>
> There is a certain organisation I belong to that teaches us that Wisdom seeks
a lonely shade, or the monastic cell, which is designed for contemplation, and
there, enthroned, she sits, delivering her sacred oracles. There people ought to
seek her, to pursue a real bliss.
>
> Not all monasterians are ascetics or gnostics. Even today.
>

I agree whole-heartedly. Both over indulgence and deprivation are experiences to
be embraced by Dlamelish. In my campaign the temple of Hrihayel held a special
communal ritual, a harvest feast with sampling of all things edible and rare..
including a few that would make one sick and sentients flesh. I would think the
monasteries of these might offer to cater to specialty experiences, or allow
clergy to 'decompress" after extreme experiences. I think the public emphasis on
sex is partially marketing, to keep the Kaitar flowing.


--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, "charlotte.ann_k" <charlotte.ann_k@...> wrote:
>
> I have been a lurker here for some time, but think I may finally have
something to say with some knowledge and experience behind it ;).  I hope I
don't just show off my lack in the knowledge department.  I am still learning.
>
> My second character (I play in two different campaigns) is a Priestess of
Dlamelish.  It has been interesting learning to cope being around the table with
six men, hee hee.  There is always much innuendo and smart talk going on that I
have had to get used to.
>
> I could easily see where monasteries would be of use to the followers of
Dlamelish.
>
> Dlamelish is a seeker after experiences.  Even doing labor can be considered
an experience....though it seems most do equate the Lady with sex in all it's
glory and don't think of much else.  I have to disagree that ascetic spiritual
contemplation would be anathema to the Lady.  Perhaps it would be to most of the
people teaching her ways.  I think she would see it as an experience also and
that it would be possible to get pleasure from it.
>
> My character has found that there can be excitement even in academic pursuits.
She has usable knowledge of devices of the ancients and that gives her a
different thrill that all the sex she could get wouldn't.  She has also traveled
the planes.  That is another experience that the mainstream wouldn't necessarily
think of as exciting.....she finds it greatly so.
>
> Even the battles she has participated in have been experiences she will never
forget.  While she is no great warrior she has other skills she can bring to the
fray.  She also doesn't necessarily look forward to them, they are experiences
that add to her life in ways she probably doesn't even realize.
>
> I think if followers of Dlamelish looked outside the "norm" they would find
many things that could give the pleasure of experience.  The taste of a
perfectly cooked and seasoned piece of meat for example.  Or the scent of a pie
baking or of that favorite perfume.  Even the feel of the brisk air outside the
temple in the middle of the night after a session of five or six hours....;).
>
> Or the relaxation after that five or six hour session.....it's all good and
it's all something I think would be approved of by the Lady.
>
> In my opinion she doesn't want her followers to get in a rut.  Going to the
same old rituals, and the same old parties night after night would not find
favor with her. I think she wants her followers to revel in life in all it's
glory!
>
> Just my 2 qirgal worth in the discussion.
>
> Charlotte
>
>
>
> --- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, Sauvagine <pneumonica@> wrote:
> >
> >      Everything that you said is correct or nearly so, but I would like to
> > add to it.  (I also ran through that scenario, wondering how my character,
> > an academic priest of Dlamelish, would get caught dead in a place like
> > that.)  Dlamelish is also associated with certain Demon Planes, and is a
> > keeper of secrets.  Dlamelish might have monasteries in order to pursue
> > some of the more difficult and detailed academic work away from the myriad
> > distractions of a major temple.  This isn't to say that they won't be
> > having "fun times," but a lot of the narcotics will be stimulants and
> > sedatives rather than aphrodesiacs and hallucinogens, a lot of the "pillow
> > talk" will be about formulae, historical trivia, and such, etc.
> >      Basically, imagine a bunch of mixed-sex geeks told to "go work alone
> > with each other" for a year, and also imagine that there's no chatrooms for
> > cybersex, so the only way is to get the real thing.
> >
> > --
> > Edmund Wilfong
> >
> > "In a little while you will be alone in shoreless space, to wander its
> > limitless solitudes without friend or comrade forever - for you will remain
> > a thought, the only existent thought, and by your nature inextinguishable,
> > indestructible.  [...T]here is no God, no universe, no human race, no
> > earthly life, no heaven, no hell.  It is all a dream - a grotesque and
> > foolish dream.  Nothing exists but you.  And you are but a thought - a
> > vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn
> > among the empty eternities!"
> > -The Mysterious Stranger, Mark Twain
> >
> > "Welcome to reality.  The paradise of repressed dreams."
> > -The Psychiatric Clinic for Abused Cuddly Toys
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:08 AM, tantavalist <darrenkng@> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
> > > which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it
here.
> > >
> > > Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of Tsolyanu"
> > > solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I found
> > > myself wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear. For
> > > most of the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just
> > > didn't fit.
> > >
> > > Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish, since I know that
> > > if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my players will
> > > want their characters to follow her.
> > >
> > > The usual ascetic spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings of
> > > Dlamelish. But simply having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless- the
> > > Temples cater to that after all. So what should a Monastary do in her
> > > service?
> > >
> > > The solution was to read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully, and
> > > remember that the Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
> > > understandable mistake, since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think
> > > "whores" when they bring her to mind.
> > >
> > > The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's colony.
> > > Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an
expression
> > > of this that often finds expression simpler when removed from
distractions.
> > > The Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of sufficient
> > > renown are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged to
create
> > > beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any secrets
> > > they see fit to impart.
> > >
> > > Likely it would be less remote than some monastaries, and have a fief to
> > > support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't feel that manual labour and doing
> > > without creature comforts is spiritually uplifting, after all.
> > >
> > > Other ideas I had which different monastaries might be based upon were:-
> > >
> > > A place where Tantric Yoga is taught, training followers in contortion
> > > skills that allow the stranger poses displayed in the Karma Sutra to
become
> > > physically possible.
> > >
> > > A detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The goal
> > > being not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to re-enter
> > > his old life after a few years and experience the delights as pleasurable
> > > again, rather than going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.
> > >
> > > Ideas given by Geestar in discussion:-
> > >
> > > A music-and-dance school, where youths and maidens are trained from a
> > > young age to give an exquisite performance before being sent to join the
> > > Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also includes the basics of
> > > espionage, because a travelling troupe of performers is the perfect way to
> > > gather information.
> > >
> > > A coven of Sorcerers who live in isolation so that they can practice the
> > > summoning of Dlamelish's many demon servitors without raising concerns
from
> > > non-Cultists about summoning such beings in a Temple within a large city.
> > >
> > > Anyone else have thoughts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

A nice write-up on Tor.com:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/03/mar-barker-1929-2012

I just saw the news, while browsing a gaming site.  I would like to offer my
sincerest condolences to the Professor's friends and family.  Certainly the
world has lost a creative giant.  Professor you will be sorely missed.

--- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, Victor Raymond <badger2305@...> wrote:
>
> Minneapolis, Minnesota, March 16, 2012
>
> Professor Muhammad Abd-al-Rahman (MAR) Barker, known to his friends as
> "Phil," died peacefully in home hospice on March 16, 2012 with his wife
> Ambereen Barker at his side. Professor Barker is survived by his wife of 53
> years, Ambereen. Details on memorial services will follow.  In lieu of
> flowers, memorials to the Tékumel Foundation are preferred, visit
> http://www.tekumelfoundation.org.
>
> For more detail, please go to:
> http://www.tekumelfoundation.org/PressRelease-MARBARKER-1929-2012.pdf
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I just wanted to say happy unlurking to you, and good post!  It's always
good to hear from "those who are silent". :)

Malcolm

On Thursday, March 22, 2012, charlotte.ann_k <charlotte.ann_k@...>
wrote:
>
>
> I have been a lurker here for some time, but think I may finally have
something to say with some knowledge and experience behind it ;). I hope I
don't just show off my lack in the knowledge department. I am still
learning.
>
> My second character (I play in two different campaigns) is a Priestess of
Dlamelish. It has been interesting learning to cope being around the table
with six men, hee hee. There is always much innuendo and smart talk going
on that I have had to get used to.
>
> I could easily see where monasteries would be of use to the followers of
Dlamelish.
>
> Dlamelish is a seeker after experiences. Even doing labor can be
considered an experience....though it seems most do equate the Lady with
sex in all it's glory and don't think of much else. I have to disagree that
ascetic spiritual contemplation would be anathema to the Lady. Perhaps it
would be to most of the people teaching her ways. I think she would see it
as an experience also and that it would be possible to get pleasure from it.
>
> My character has found that there can be excitement even in academic
pursuits. She has usable knowledge of devices of the ancients and that
gives her a different thrill that all the sex she could get wouldn't. She
has also traveled the planes. That is another experience that the
mainstream wouldn't necessarily think of as exciting.....she finds it
greatly so.
>
> Even the battles she has participated in have been experiences she will
never forget. While she is no great warrior she has other skills she can
bring to the fray. She also doesn't necessarily look forward to them, they
are experiences that add to her life in ways she probably doesn't even
realize.
>
> I think if followers of Dlamelish looked outside the "norm" they would
find many things that could give the pleasure of experience. The taste of a
perfectly cooked and seasoned piece of meat for example. Or the scent of a
pie baking or of that favorite perfume. Even the feel of the brisk air
outside the temple in the middle of the night after a session of five or
six hours....;).
>
> Or the relaxation after that five or six hour session.....it's all good
and it's all something I think would be approved of by the Lady.
>
> In my opinion she doesn't want her followers to get in a rut. Going to
the same old rituals, and the same old parties night after night would not
find favor with her. I think she wants her followers to revel in life in
all it's glory!
>
> Just my 2 qirgal worth in the discussion.
>
> Charlotte
>
> --- In tekumel@yahoogroups.com, Sauvagine <pneumonica@...> wrote:
>>
>> Everything that you said is correct or nearly so, but I would like to
>> add to it. (I also ran through that scenario, wondering how my character,
>> an academic priest of Dlamelish, would get caught dead in a place like
>> that.) Dlamelish is also associated with certain Demon Planes, and is a
>> keeper of secrets. Dlamelish might have monasteries in order to pursue
>> some of the more difficult and detailed academic work away from the
myriad
>> distractions of a major temple. This isn't to say that they won't be
>> having "fun times," but a lot of the narcotics will be stimulants and
>> sedatives rather than aphrodesiacs and hallucinogens, a lot of the
"pillow
>> talk" will be about formulae, historical trivia, and such, etc.
>> Basically, imagine a bunch of mixed-sex geeks told to "go work alone
>> with each other" for a year, and also imagine that there's no chatrooms
for
>> cybersex, so the only way is to get the real thing.
>>
>> --
>> Edmund Wilfong
>>
>> "In a little while you will be alone in shoreless space, to wander its
>> limitless solitudes without friend or comrade forever - for you will
remain
>> a thought, the only existent thought, and by your nature
inextinguishable,
>> indestructible. [...T]here is no God, no universe, no human race, no
>> earthly life, no heaven, no hell. It is all a dream - a grotesque and
>> foolish dream. Nothing exists but you. And you are but a thought - a
>> vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn
>> among the empty eternities!"
>> -The Mysterious Stranger, Mark Twain
>>
>> "Welcome to reality. The paradise of repressed dreams."
>> -The Psychiatric Clinic for Abused Cuddly Toys
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 10:08 AM, tantavalist <darrenkng@...> wrote:
>>
>> > **
>> >
>> >
>> > In the chatroom last night, I mentioned an idea that had occurred to me
>> > which others found sufficiently interesting that I thought I'd post it
here.
>> >
>> > Having read the "Adventures on Tekumel: Beneath the Lands of Tsolyanu"
>> > solo adventure book and the description of the Monastary in it, I found
>> > myself wondering how the Monastaries of other religions might appear.
For
>> > most of the Stability Pantheon the depiction was fine, but others just
>> > didn't fit.
>> >
>> > Specifically, I found myself wondering about Dlamelish, since I know
that
>> > if I manage to get a campaign organised at least some of my players
will
>> > want their characters to follow her.
>> >
>> > The usual ascetic spiritual contemplation is anathema to the teachings
of
>> > Dlamelish. But simply having it be a drug-fuelled orgy is pointless-
the
>> > Temples cater to that after all. So what should a Monastary do in her
>> > service?
>> >
>> > The solution was to read the Mitlanyal section of Dlemelish carefully,
and
>> > remember that the Emerald Lady isn't just about sex. Even if that's an
>> > understandable mistake, since I'm sure a lot of Tsolyani just think
>> > "whores" when they bring her to mind.
>> >
>> > The final image I came up with was essentially an artist's colony.
>> > Dlamelish is about every form of sensual pleasure, and Art is an
expression
>> > of this that often finds expression simpler when removed from
distractions.
>> > The Monastary resembles a well-off Clanhouse where artists of
sufficient
>> > renown are given private chambers and work-spaces, and encouraged to
create
>> > beauty. And presumably to teach any aspiring younger artists any
secrets
>> > they see fit to impart.
>> >
>> > Likely it would be less remote than some monastaries, and have a fief
to
>> > support it. Followers of Dlamelish don't feel that manual labour and
doing
>> > without creature comforts is spiritually uplifting, after all.
>> >
>> > Other ideas I had which different monastaries might be based upon
were:-
>> >
>> > A place where Tantric Yoga is taught, training followers in contortion
>> > skills that allow the stranger poses displayed in the Karma Sutra to
become
>> > physically possible.
>> >
>> > A detoxification and purification lodge for burnt-out hedonists. The
goal
>> > being not to reform such a character, but to make it possible to
re-enter
>> > his old life after a few years and experience the delights as
pleasurable
>> > again, rather than going through the motions in a state of jaded ennui.
>> >
>> > Ideas given by Geestar in discussion:-
>> >
>> > A music-and-dance school, where youths and maidens are trained from a
>> > young age to give an exquisite performance before being sent to join
the
>> > Temple-sponsored Troupes. Such training also includes the basics of
>> > espionage, because a travelling troupe of performers is the perfect
way to
>> > gather information.
>> >
>> > A coven of Sorcerers who live in isolation so that they can practice
the
>> > summoning of Dlamelish's many demon servitors without raising concerns
from
>> > non-Cultists about summoning such beings in a Temple within a large
city.
>> >
>> > Anyone else have thoughts?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome, Charlotte, it's good to see another woman posting.

Most do tend to equate the Green-Eyed Lady and Her Cohort with "sex, drugs
and rock-n-roll." I have no problems with that line-up, but Pavar tells us
(via Mitlanyal) that it is 'lan' for the worshipper to pursue *any* new
sensations and experiences.

So yes, I imagine that a devotee of Lady Dlamelish would indulge in a day's
work in the fields, or dragging a barge along the upper Mssuma (a day's
hard yakka, as we say here in Australia) - as long as the task was freely
chosen. The trouble is that s/he would probably "go walkabout" ("down tools
and wander off" - the expression is seldom used is civilized company
nowadays) when s/he got bored. To get the task completed would require a
devotee of the Lady Hrihayal :D

Cheers,

Sally

___________

Discrepancies should not “irk” a noble and kindly person. They should be
forgiven as being part and parcel of the human condition.

- * Muhammad Abd ar-Rahman Barker*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]